Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

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Re: Philosophy, Life's Important Questions

Postby Jolpengammler » August 23rd, 2016, 7:31 pm

WARNING GRAMMAR NAZI ALERT:
The title of this thread has to be "Life's important questions"
Called "Deppenapostroph" in German.
*marches away*

There, my title is correct!
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Re: Philosophy, Life's Important Questions

Postby EarthPhantomTS » August 23rd, 2016, 10:40 pm

Jolpengammler wrote:WARNING GRAMMAR NAZI ALERT:
The title of this thread has to be "Life's important questions"
Called "Deppenapostroph" in German.
*marches away*

There, my title is correct!


He won't listen. I already said this quite some time ago :tundecided:
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Re: Philosophy, Life's Important Questions

Postby Alice » August 24th, 2016, 4:18 am

Jolpengammler wrote:WARNING GRAMMAR NAZI ALERT:
The title of this thread has to be "Life's important questions"
Called "Deppenapostroph" in German.
*marches away*

There, my title is correct!

Clearly the thread title is referencing reincarnation.
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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby Tovarisch Red Yoshi » August 24th, 2016, 4:20 am

you should have added like 20 commas to the title instead

EDIT: I meant apostrophes but that's even better
wikipedia wrote:The word "w00t" itself was first seen in 1994.[citation needed] The expression rose in popularity in the late 1990s and early 2000s (decade) mostly on MMORPG such as RuneScape. It remains a niche Internet term and is not in general usage. The symbolic approximation of Latin letter forms makes w00t a prime example of internet leetspeak. It may also sometimes be seen spelled as "wewt" or "wought".
Isocitration wrote:<Isocitration> a long obscure nonsequitur that must be explained
<Isocitration> the joke is funny because of that alone
<tovakj> you've known me how long, yet?
<tovakj> yes
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R'e,:,' 'Ph'i,l'o,'s'o,p'hy,' ',L'if,'es,' ',Im,por,t,an't,' ',Q',ues,t'ion,''s

Postby chridd » August 24th, 2016, 5:49 am

Like thi's?

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Re: R'e,:,' 'Ph'i,l'o,'s'o,p'hy,' ',L'if,'es,' ',Im,por,t,an't,' ',Q',ues,t'ion,''s

Postby Tovarisch Red Yoshi » August 24th, 2016, 6:26 am

chridd wrote:Like thi's?

bjut
wikipedia wrote:The word "w00t" itself was first seen in 1994.[citation needed] The expression rose in popularity in the late 1990s and early 2000s (decade) mostly on MMORPG such as RuneScape. It remains a niche Internet term and is not in general usage. The symbolic approximation of Latin letter forms makes w00t a prime example of internet leetspeak. It may also sometimes be seen spelled as "wewt" or "wought".

Isocitration wrote:<Isocitration> a long obscure nonsequitur that must be explained
<Isocitration> the joke is funny because of that alone
<tovakj> you've known me how long, yet?
<tovakj> yes
<tovakj> you're finally figuring out my aesthetic


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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby Jolpengammler » August 24th, 2016, 7:58 am

Holy shit, this made me laugh more than it should! xD
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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby Aposke » August 25th, 2016, 10:10 am

What's this, fun in the philosophy thread?
How paradoxical.

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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby Alice » August 25th, 2016, 10:41 am

Aposke wrote:What's this, fun in the philosophy thread?
How paradoxical.

We've got a shitposting quota to meet. Where it's met, however, is up for debate.
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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby EarthPhantomTS » August 25th, 2016, 4:54 pm

Alice wrote:
Aposke wrote:What's this, fun in the philosophy thread?
How paradoxical.

We've got a shitposting quota to meet. Where it's met, however, is up for debate.


That reminds me...I haven't been meeting my "dirty comment" quota. So...umm...[grabs the ass of everyone who reads this] Image!
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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby EarthPhantomTS » August 27th, 2016, 4:53 pm

Well, anyway, I've got a question. About Abrahamic religions, and sex. So, the reason why I think the Goddess is hyper-sexual is because humanity (as well as bonobos, and to a much lesser extent, almost all plants and animals) are highly sexual creatures. This viewpoint, I'm aware though, isn't too common. It's much more common nowadays for God to be thought of as hating sex (search your Bibles and Torahs and Korans. You know it to be true). So my question is: if God hates sex so much, why did he make ("make" referring to not only Creationism, but Theistic Evolution. If the latter's true, God still "made" us, slowly) not only humans who will have sex for fun, but bonobos who constantly have angry sex? Am I right in assuming there's a contradiction there? Or did Christianity already come up with a way out of this dilemma? Preferably one that doesn't involve Satan or "Original Sin", because as we all know, bonobos are hyper-sexual too, and they aren't said to be descended from Adam, or tempted by devils, or anything of the sort.
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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby Alice » August 27th, 2016, 5:09 pm

EarthPhantomTS wrote:Well, anyway, I've got a question. About Abrahamic religions, and sex. So, the reason why I think the Goddess is hyper-sexual is because humanity (as well as bonobos, and to a much lesser extent, almost all plants and animals) are highly sexual creatures. This viewpoint, I'm aware though, isn't too common. It's much more common nowadays for God to be thought of as hating sex (search your Bibles and Torahs and Korans. You know it to be true). So my question is: if God hates sex so much, why did he make ("make" referring to not only Creationism, but Theistic Evolution. If the latter's true, God still "made" us, slowly) not only humans who will have sex for fun, but bonobos who constantly have angry sex? Am I right in assuming there's a contradiction there? Or did Christianity already come up with a way out of this dilemma? Preferably one that doesn't involve Satan or "Original Sin", because as we all know, bonobos are hyper-sexual too, and they aren't said to be descended from Adam, or tempted by devils, or anything of the sort.

You can use that sort of logic for a lot of things. If God's benevolent then why did he make evil? If he disapproves of homosexuality then why did he make people gay? Etcetera and so on and so forth. The answer to all those questions is almost always the same bullshit too. It's testing their faith.
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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby EarthPhantomTS » August 27th, 2016, 7:05 pm

Alice wrote:
EarthPhantomTS wrote:Well, anyway, I've got a question. About Abrahamic religions, and sex. So, the reason why I think the Goddess is hyper-sexual is because humanity (as well as bonobos, and to a much lesser extent, almost all plants and animals) are highly sexual creatures. This viewpoint, I'm aware though, isn't too common. It's much more common nowadays for God to be thought of as hating sex (search your Bibles and Torahs and Korans. You know it to be true). So my question is: if God hates sex so much, why did he make ("make" referring to not only Creationism, but Theistic Evolution. If the latter's true, God still "made" us, slowly) not only humans who will have sex for fun, but bonobos who constantly have angry sex? Am I right in assuming there's a contradiction there? Or did Christianity already come up with a way out of this dilemma? Preferably one that doesn't involve Satan or "Original Sin", because as we all know, bonobos are hyper-sexual too, and they aren't said to be descended from Adam, or tempted by devils, or anything of the sort.

You can use that sort of logic for a lot of things. If God's benevolent then why did he make evil? If he disapproves of homosexuality then why did he make people gay? Etcetera and so on and so forth. The answer to all those questions is almost always the same bullshit too. It's testing their faith.


Yeah, it is dumb. Well, screw them. When we go to the great orgy in the sky, I'll be the one having fun Image Image! Mwahahahahahahahahaha Image Image!

...Or maybe I and the sex-haters will be going to different Heavens. That seems more like what my Goddess would do.
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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby Tovarisch Red Yoshi » August 28th, 2016, 1:02 am

I'm of the opinion that if you have a religion you should strive to interpret all of it as allegory.

For example, on the surface Adam and Eve is a barbaric misogynistic myth about a god creating people just to torture them. Read everything as a metaphor and it instead becomes a story about the loss of innocence, coming of age to struggle with how fucked up the world already is.

There's a number of different paganisms. For me the advantage of going shoulder deep into most of them though is their lack of a brahmah analog. Instead of rejecting dualism for monism, they reject dualism for polyism. There's a lot of contradictions throughout our world; life struggles against death, pain struggles against pleasure, the same light that warms and nourishes us will kill us and sterilize the planet in something like 1.5 billion years and swallow us by 6. And because enemy of my enemy, there's a large dialectic that emerges of amoralistic struggle for survival. And suddenly you see things like Life allying up with Suffering or Nutrition lining up with Sickness. I mean, the entire point of Tiamat is the Chaoskampf, before she was ripped asunder by Marduk, the avatar of storms (read: ag) and civilizing forces.

Ra, standing in for Maat, was in constant war with Apep, and even Seth aided Ra. You read that as the Great House, standing in for cosmic order and justice, in constant conflict with wild west quantities of "look someone bad in the eye and they'll kill you for it". And that it's something even foreigners, criminals, storms, and the like want at a fundamental level, the rule of law.


So of course there's going to be conflict like that; we live in a dialectical world
wikipedia wrote:The word "w00t" itself was first seen in 1994.[citation needed] The expression rose in popularity in the late 1990s and early 2000s (decade) mostly on MMORPG such as RuneScape. It remains a niche Internet term and is not in general usage. The symbolic approximation of Latin letter forms makes w00t a prime example of internet leetspeak. It may also sometimes be seen spelled as "wewt" or "wought".

Isocitration wrote:<Isocitration> a long obscure nonsequitur that must be explained
<Isocitration> the joke is funny because of that alone
<tovakj> you've known me how long, yet?
<tovakj> yes
<tovakj> you're finally figuring out my aesthetic


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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby Alice » August 28th, 2016, 9:20 am

Tovarisch Red Yoshi wrote:I'm of the opinion that if you have a religion you should strive to interpret all of it as allegory.

For example, on the surface Adam and Eve is a barbaric misogynistic myth about a god creating people just to torture them. Read everything as a metaphor and it instead becomes a story about the loss of innocence, coming of age to struggle with how fucked up the world already is.

The issue here, however, comes with the fact that the overwhelming majority of Christians take it almost completely literally.
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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby Tovarisch Red Yoshi » August 28th, 2016, 12:25 pm

Alice wrote:
Tovarisch Red Yoshi wrote:I'm of the opinion that if you have a religion you should strive to interpret all of it as allegory.

For example, on the surface Adam and Eve is a barbaric misogynistic myth about a god creating people just to torture them. Read everything as a metaphor and it instead becomes a story about the loss of innocence, coming of age to struggle with how fucked up the world already is.

The issue here, however, comes with the fact that the overwhelming majority of Christians take it almost completely literally.



Well, yes, we all agree to that. And at the same time it happened in Christianity, it happened in Islam too - because nothing exists in a vacuum and we're all flowers in a garden under the bees.

This is why I keep trying to stand up for Islam, in fact - American Muslims are extremely unlike Muslims anywhere in the rest of the World, and tend to be extremely progressive and liberal (read: willing to take non-literal readings of the Qur'an, just as their liberal progressive Christian counterparts are not the literalist idolaters in America); likewise the farther you get from the KSA you get generally the better Islam used to be, whether that's Uyghur, Moorish, or Indonesian, and the entire resurgence in those parts is due to a mix of the post soviet religious revival and the KSA slipping it's putrid tentacles up everyone's ass. But even then - throwing the Sufis, Hanafis (especially Gülen's Hizmet movement; yes, that Gülen, the one Islamist Erdoğan is trying to kill), Tolu-e-Islam types, modernists, Ahmedis, etc who are sane (which for transparency I'll describe as being liberal/libertarian in their belief set); or throwing the Turks, Malays, Aryans (pan-Iranians), etc and even the Arabs who are sane all under the bus disgusts me

Because they are, but for the grace of God, us; because they're our allies in combating the fundie fucks killing everyone.


Off topic: before I decided to invoke god, I wrote "toss a stone or a pebble" and would that have even made sense? because I realized that's not a thing people say, I think, but it make completely fluent sense to me
wikipedia wrote:The word "w00t" itself was first seen in 1994.[citation needed] The expression rose in popularity in the late 1990s and early 2000s (decade) mostly on MMORPG such as RuneScape. It remains a niche Internet term and is not in general usage. The symbolic approximation of Latin letter forms makes w00t a prime example of internet leetspeak. It may also sometimes be seen spelled as "wewt" or "wought".

Isocitration wrote:<Isocitration> a long obscure nonsequitur that must be explained
<Isocitration> the joke is funny because of that alone
<tovakj> you've known me how long, yet?
<tovakj> yes
<tovakj> you're finally figuring out my aesthetic


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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby EarthPhantomTS » August 28th, 2016, 1:58 pm

The main problem with me and Abrahamic religions, is that I cannot feel peace with them, only guilt and shame. And the idiots in those religions are part of the reason, but the real elephant in the room is all the damn stupid rules those religions have. That's why I worship sex Image. Because I can actually feel peace with it. It's who I am. Sex makes me feel good, not bad Image.

I realize that some would call that a stupid reason to worship sex, but I just thought you guys should know.
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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby Tovarisch Red Yoshi » August 28th, 2016, 2:05 pm

the funny thing is religion is etymologically and comparatively defined by its rites, rules, and rituals
wikipedia wrote:The word "w00t" itself was first seen in 1994.[citation needed] The expression rose in popularity in the late 1990s and early 2000s (decade) mostly on MMORPG such as RuneScape. It remains a niche Internet term and is not in general usage. The symbolic approximation of Latin letter forms makes w00t a prime example of internet leetspeak. It may also sometimes be seen spelled as "wewt" or "wought".

Isocitration wrote:<Isocitration> a long obscure nonsequitur that must be explained
<Isocitration> the joke is funny because of that alone
<tovakj> you've known me how long, yet?
<tovakj> yes
<tovakj> you're finally figuring out my aesthetic


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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby EarthPhantomTS » August 29th, 2016, 12:39 am

Tovarisch Red Yoshi wrote:the funny thing is religion is etymologically and comparatively defined by its rites, rules, and rituals


Yeah, I know. But Abrahamic religion's rules are...kinda incompatible with the way I want to live my life.

Here are my religion's rules:

1. Love yourself and others

2. Encourage sexuality

3. Never fail to make love when the opportunity presents itself

Simple, right?
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Warning: Noted tendency to go from the Queen of Lewd to the Queen of Shrews seemingly at random. If this happens, explain that you meant nothing by it, and she'll quickly apologize

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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby Tovarisch Red Yoshi » August 29th, 2016, 5:14 am

This guy is pretty fucking amazing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Khaldun

He's like if Adam Smith and Georg Hegel were rolled into one
wikipedia wrote:The word "w00t" itself was first seen in 1994.[citation needed] The expression rose in popularity in the late 1990s and early 2000s (decade) mostly on MMORPG such as RuneScape. It remains a niche Internet term and is not in general usage. The symbolic approximation of Latin letter forms makes w00t a prime example of internet leetspeak. It may also sometimes be seen spelled as "wewt" or "wought".

Isocitration wrote:<Isocitration> a long obscure nonsequitur that must be explained
<Isocitration> the joke is funny because of that alone
<tovakj> you've known me how long, yet?
<tovakj> yes
<tovakj> you're finally figuring out my aesthetic


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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby Tovarisch Red Yoshi » August 29th, 2016, 5:37 am

EarthPhantomTS wrote:
Yeah, I know. But Abrahamic religion's rules are...kinda incompatible with the way I want to live my life.

Here are my religion's rules:

1. Love yourself and others

2. Encourage sexuality

3. Never fail to make love when the opportunity presents itself

Simple, right?



Also, as cool as Ibn Khaldun is, I think this deserved its own post. But, basically, if you think your system has answers, you should test it against the slew of problems people have posed to the various moral systems.

For example, trolley problems, or as someone put it -

"
Ambulance problem seems like a suitable parallel to trolley problem:

You are managing an ambulance service. An ambulance is dispatched to pick up a critically injured person. When it is five minutes away, you receive a request to pick up five critically injured people who are also five minutes away from its current location. Do you divert the ambulance, or not?
"


Or like, given 1, is lying a là Oskar Schindler morally permissible? Or is lying wrong because it's failure to show love to person being lied to?


Or even so, what were the ethics of the battle for Helen of Troy? Was war like that permissible, as it was done out of love? Or what about the myth of Persephone? Was Hades justified to steal her away from Demeter?

Heck - fundies deserve love, right? So should you hate fundies or love them?
wikipedia wrote:The word "w00t" itself was first seen in 1994.[citation needed] The expression rose in popularity in the late 1990s and early 2000s (decade) mostly on MMORPG such as RuneScape. It remains a niche Internet term and is not in general usage. The symbolic approximation of Latin letter forms makes w00t a prime example of internet leetspeak. It may also sometimes be seen spelled as "wewt" or "wought".

Isocitration wrote:<Isocitration> a long obscure nonsequitur that must be explained
<Isocitration> the joke is funny because of that alone
<tovakj> you've known me how long, yet?
<tovakj> yes
<tovakj> you're finally figuring out my aesthetic


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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby EarthPhantomTS » August 29th, 2016, 9:37 am

Tovarisch Red Yoshi wrote:
EarthPhantomTS wrote:
Yeah, I know. But Abrahamic religion's rules are...kinda incompatible with the way I want to live my life.

Here are my religion's rules:

1. Love yourself and others

2. Encourage sexuality

3. Never fail to make love when the opportunity presents itself

Simple, right?



Also, as cool as Ibn Khaldun is, I think this deserved its own post. But, basically, if you think your system has answers, you should test it against the slew of problems people have posed to the various moral systems.

For example, trolley problems, or as someone put it -

"
Ambulance problem seems like a suitable parallel to trolley problem:

You are managing an ambulance service. An ambulance is dispatched to pick up a critically injured person. When it is five minutes away, you receive a request to pick up five critically injured people who are also five minutes away from its current location. Do you divert the ambulance, or not?
"


Or like, given 1, is lying a là Oskar Schindler morally permissible? Or is lying wrong because it's failure to show love to person being lied to?


Or even so, what were the ethics of the battle for Helen of Troy? Was war like that permissible, as it was done out of love? Or what about the myth of Persephone? Was Hades justified to steal her away from Demeter?

Heck - fundies deserve love, right? So should you hate fundies or love them?


Well, it's still in it's infancy, as a most imperfect science. So a lot of those questions...well, I'll have to get back to you on :tundecided: . But as for Hades's kidnapping of Persephone, well, that I consider "rape" so no, it wasn't. Rape is still bad in my view. But, hey, at least we got some beauty out of the deal :tstick: !

While we're on the subject of "Deities invoked as explanations for the seasons", I'll go ahead and mention that, unlike fundies who think everything Yahweh does is good by definition, I would consider some of the things Ishtar did to be immoral. Like killing her lovers. So yes, I worship a goddess who I think is emphatically not perfect. But, again, it's not about being a perfect entity for me; it's about who I feel a connection to. And I do feel a connection to her. Even if that means I'm crazy (and maybe I am a bit crazy, in a sexy way, hee hee Image!).

And, to answer what's probably the most pressing question (as the two of us have to struggle with it every day), well, yes, fundies deserve love. But it would be more loving to show them the error of their ways. But since that's not usually possible, just keeping them out of our bedrooms is generally good enough, as them invading our bedrooms would decrease the amount of love in the world greatly. Does that make sense? In short, we should oppose them, but not lose sight of the fact that we're all human (even if some of us have fun pretending to be succubi or lamias :winking: ).

EDIT: I should honestly thank you for asking, because it's good for getting me to think about this stuff, and articulate how my brand of sex-worship would answer these questions.
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Warning: Noted tendency to go from the Queen of Lewd to the Queen of Shrews seemingly at random. If this happens, explain that you meant nothing by it, and she'll quickly apologize

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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby Tovarisch Red Yoshi » October 8th, 2016, 1:49 am

for earth and aposke to discuss together, maybe https://aeon.co/videos/why-socrates-bel ... hteousness
wikipedia wrote:The word "w00t" itself was first seen in 1994.[citation needed] The expression rose in popularity in the late 1990s and early 2000s (decade) mostly on MMORPG such as RuneScape. It remains a niche Internet term and is not in general usage. The symbolic approximation of Latin letter forms makes w00t a prime example of internet leetspeak. It may also sometimes be seen spelled as "wewt" or "wought".

Isocitration wrote:<Isocitration> a long obscure nonsequitur that must be explained
<Isocitration> the joke is funny because of that alone
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Re: ΦΙΛΟΣΟΦΙΑ, Lifes Importan't Questions

Postby chridd » October 8th, 2016, 7:24 pm

Tovarisch Red Yoshi wrote:for earth and aposke to discuss together, maybe https://aeon.co/videos/why-socrates-bel ... hteousness
it would be absurd to only see beauty in one individual since bodies are so similar
Not if the traits that determine whether a person is beautiful are traits which are different between different people... which seems likely, since a sense of beauty of humans likely developed to distinguish humans with certain desirable qualities from those with undesirable qualities.

From this the next step [...] is to see the beauty that lies beyond appearances
What exactly does this mean? That appreciation of physical beauty leads to appreciation of inner beauty? I mean, that could probably happen, but I don't see any reason why appreciation of physical beauty would always lead to appreciation of inner beauty, nor why one couldn't start from inner beauty or come there from somewhere else. I'm not even convinced that physical and inner beauty are even types of the same thing. Or are they saying that inner beauty is superior to physical beauty? I mean, one could argue this is the case, but the video doesn't even attempt to present such an argument.

the form of beauty itself
What does that even mean?

This form of beauty also carries with it moral qualities of goodness.
WHY? What qualities? Does it cause greater happiness to a greater number of people? Have they even established what morality is?

Also the title says sexual desire, but the actual argument is all about beauty; those aren't necessarily the same, but the video doesn't even address that possibility.

In any case, what's the point? That appreciating physical beauty can lead to appreciating other forms of beauty? I mean, that's not really saying much... Do Plato or Diotima have even any data to show whether people who appreciate physical beauty are more or less likely to understand the abstract form of beauty?

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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby Tovarisch Red Yoshi » October 9th, 2016, 1:21 am

wow

someone's not a virtue ethicist ;)

and why are you talking empirics? this is philosophy! :kappa:

So, really few if any traits people consider beautiful exist as boolean values, usually it's a spectrum like skin color or muscle mass. Attractive is the mean despite couture and that's been found multiple times.

Physical and inner beauty aren't the same things; they're different rungs on the ladder. You might never climb up from the bottom rung, and that's part of the point.

As for beauty itself, remember we're dealing Plato and platonic ideals. I'm not really well versed in this stuff, but Beauty itself is probably a deontological beauty (compare the ontological argument for God, "proved" by the mathematician Gödel); imagine the maximally beautiful thing - wouldn't it be beautiful if that thing existed? therefore, because maximally beautiful thing has the trait of "existence" it exists. Everything we know is a crude imitation of the ideals, everything we know declined from the state the Gods fashioned the world in, lust is literally a perversion.

And, of course, good men love Beauty itself; surely a Beautiful life is something everyone wants to strive for (eudaimonia, an end goal for everyone)? so there's a traditional conflation of good and beauty and other good things which is nebulous on purpose (we are not ideals so we cannot describe ideals directly but we can start with wide definitions and inferentially narrow our concepts of them).

anyways this is probably a bad explanation and I'm a consequentialist anyways. But I thought maybe it'd affect how earth contextualizes somethings and Aposke could probably say something interesting about it from an ontological perspective
wikipedia wrote:The word "w00t" itself was first seen in 1994.[citation needed] The expression rose in popularity in the late 1990s and early 2000s (decade) mostly on MMORPG such as RuneScape. It remains a niche Internet term and is not in general usage. The symbolic approximation of Latin letter forms makes w00t a prime example of internet leetspeak. It may also sometimes be seen spelled as "wewt" or "wought".

Isocitration wrote:<Isocitration> a long obscure nonsequitur that must be explained
<Isocitration> the joke is funny because of that alone
<tovakj> you've known me how long, yet?
<tovakj> yes
<tovakj> you're finally figuring out my aesthetic


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Re: Philosophy, Lives' Important Questions

Postby chridd » October 9th, 2016, 2:26 am

Tovarisch Red Yoshi wrote:Physical and inner beauty aren't the same things; they're different rungs on the ladder. You might never climb up from the bottom rung, and that's part of the point.
And part of my point is that I'm not convinced they're even on the same ladder.

I mean, they argue that you can get to point B (inner beauty, ideal of beauty) by going through point A (physical beauty). But I'm not convinced that to get to point B you have to go through point A, or that if you go through point A then you have to go through point B, or that going through point A is the best or most common way to get to point B, or that going from A to B is better or easier or harder or more common than going from B to A... "There is a path from A to B" is a fairly weak statement, and there aren't any good arguments there for any stronger statements.

As for beauty itself, remember we're dealing Plato and platonic ideals. [...] Everything we know is a crude imitation of the ideals, everything we know declined from the state the Gods fashioned the world in, lust is literally a perversion.
...but platonic ideals isn't how the world works. The things we see (at least, non–human-made things) aren't imitations of some ideal; rather, to start with, only the (non-ideal) things exist, and then we put them in categories based on traits that they have in common. Those categories may have some sort of ideal or central example, but that's just an artifact of how we think of them, not anything intrinsic to how the world works—and of course different people might categorize the world differently and thus have different central examples. (Not to mention that things can be definitively in a category but far from its central example; e.g., ostriches are definitely birds, but at least for me, the central example of a bird is probably some sort of songbird, which is not very much like an ostrich.)
This is especially true with things like beauty and morality, where the defining traits are more closely connected with what people care about and how they react (since different people care about different things and react differently). Even more especially true with sexual desire, since it's well-known that many people only experience sexual desire towards one half of the population and many others only experience it towards the other half.


I mean, it could be the case that seeing physical beauty is a good starting place for seeing inner beauty (despite this argument not being particularly convincing), or be morally good, and it may be significant that there's been a culture and/or person that thought this way, but GOSH DARN IT SOMEONE WHO'S NOT EVEN ALIVE ANYMORE WAS WRONG AND THUS I MUST ARGUE AGAINST THEM! ;)

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Re: Philosophy, Lives' Important Questions

Postby Tovarisch Red Yoshi » October 9th, 2016, 9:09 am

chridd wrote:And part of my point is that I'm not convinced they're even on the same ladder.


You don't have to climb every rung of a ladder. You can be that asshole who climbs the stairs two at a time :kappa:


...but platonic ideals isn't how the world works.


I'm not an idealist, I don't know why you're telling me this. I mean I could try to argue for it, because epistemology is hilarious, but it'd be pointless
wikipedia wrote:The word "w00t" itself was first seen in 1994.[citation needed] The expression rose in popularity in the late 1990s and early 2000s (decade) mostly on MMORPG such as RuneScape. It remains a niche Internet term and is not in general usage. The symbolic approximation of Latin letter forms makes w00t a prime example of internet leetspeak. It may also sometimes be seen spelled as "wewt" or "wought".

Isocitration wrote:<Isocitration> a long obscure nonsequitur that must be explained
<Isocitration> the joke is funny because of that alone
<tovakj> you've known me how long, yet?
<tovakj> yes
<tovakj> you're finally figuring out my aesthetic


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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby Tovarisch Red Yoshi » October 13th, 2016, 3:46 pm

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politic ... -1.2828825

The left will promote and understand and tolerate anything, as long as there is one element. Do you know what it is? Consent," Limbaugh said during his namesake radio Show Wednesday. "If there is consent on both or all three or all four, however many are involved in the sex act, it's perfectly fine. But if the left ever senses and smells that there's no consent in part of the equation then here come the rape police.


you know

I know it's an unpopular opinion here

but maybe considering the shit with Trump, and Bill himself if you dig into it, the feminist rape culture shit actually was on to something
wikipedia wrote:The word "w00t" itself was first seen in 1994.[citation needed] The expression rose in popularity in the late 1990s and early 2000s (decade) mostly on MMORPG such as RuneScape. It remains a niche Internet term and is not in general usage. The symbolic approximation of Latin letter forms makes w00t a prime example of internet leetspeak. It may also sometimes be seen spelled as "wewt" or "wought".

Isocitration wrote:<Isocitration> a long obscure nonsequitur that must be explained
<Isocitration> the joke is funny because of that alone
<tovakj> you've known me how long, yet?
<tovakj> yes
<tovakj> you're finally figuring out my aesthetic


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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby EarthPhantomTS » October 13th, 2016, 6:46 pm

Tovarisch Red Yoshi wrote:http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/rush-limbaugh-hints-left-strict-consensual-sex-article-1.2828825

The left will promote and understand and tolerate anything, as long as there is one element. Do you know what it is? Consent," Limbaugh said during his namesake radio Show Wednesday. "If there is consent on both or all three or all four, however many are involved in the sex act, it's perfectly fine. But if the left ever senses and smells that there's no consent in part of the equation then here come the rape police.


you know

I know it's an unpopular opinion here

but maybe considering the shit with Trump, and Bill himself if you dig into it, the feminist rape culture shit actually was on to something


Rush Limbaugh pisses me off too. But you know what's just as bad as rape? False allegations of rape. You can't rape a fictional character, for one, but far too many people think you somehow can. You also can't rape inanimate objects. And I'm pretty sure you can't rape yourself, either.

Honestly, false allegations of rape just make it harder for anyone to take rape seriously. I don't see why this is so hard for people to grasp. It's like the boy who cried wolf! I'm pretty well convinced that the biggest thing keeping rape culture going is so many people make false and/or downright idiotic allegations of rape. But, other than that, congrats, Rush, you described my stance on sexuality perfectly! I don't see why THAT'S so hard to understand!
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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby Alice » October 13th, 2016, 8:15 pm

EarthPhantomTS wrote:You can't rape a fictional character, for one, but far too many people think you somehow can. You also can't rape inanimate objects. And I'm pretty sure you can't rape yourself, either.

This is exactly why I don't really have an issue with stuff like rape in hentai mangas or guro or so on and so forth. If it's only affecting fictional characters then why would I ever give a shit about it when there's more important things to worry about such as exploitation of children and actual rape?
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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby Tovarisch Red Yoshi » October 14th, 2016, 12:42 am

Actually the reaction to feminism was another side to sexual liberation and it was all about grabbing women by the pussy and playing loose with the idea of consent that these entitled motherfuckers don't understand. From Donald Trump and Hugh Hefner to Vladimir Putin and Silvio Berlusconi to fictional characters like James Bond or the persona Batman uses to keep his enemies out of his private life. Of course, the 2010s drank some dank ass water so our generations sees them pop up in a wash of colors as PUAs and the like

anyways if a presidential candidate bragging about rape and sexual assault and the other candidate's husband basically being a rapist himself isn't enough to convince you of anything im not really sure there is
wikipedia wrote:The word "w00t" itself was first seen in 1994.[citation needed] The expression rose in popularity in the late 1990s and early 2000s (decade) mostly on MMORPG such as RuneScape. It remains a niche Internet term and is not in general usage. The symbolic approximation of Latin letter forms makes w00t a prime example of internet leetspeak. It may also sometimes be seen spelled as "wewt" or "wought".

Isocitration wrote:<Isocitration> a long obscure nonsequitur that must be explained
<Isocitration> the joke is funny because of that alone
<tovakj> you've known me how long, yet?
<tovakj> yes
<tovakj> you're finally figuring out my aesthetic


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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby Alice » October 14th, 2016, 12:49 am

Tovarisch Red Yoshi wrote:anyways if a presidential candidate bragging about rape and sexual assault and the other candidate's husband basically being a rapist himself isn't enough to convince you of anything im not really sure there is

The issue with that, from my point of view at least, is the same with a lot of stuff I might otherwise agree with. Generally the supporters you see of those things are the loud obnoxious ones who go way too far and delegitimize the subject in the eyes of more moderate people. Ie: The idea of rape culture that you tend to hear from the people who vocally support it tends to suggest that our culture is centered around glorifying rape or some such bullshit. When in reality it's nowhere near like that even though there are many valid points such as what you said about people such as Trump being seen as acceptable which is clearly an issue.

I definitely think Trump's attitude is a huge problem and should not be acceptable at all, let alone from a presidential candidate. And if him or any of those other people are guilty of rape or other sexual crimes then they definitely need to be convicted for it because it's not okay. The vast majority of people do think that sort of thing is quite abhorrent though anyways.
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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby Tovarisch Red Yoshi » October 14th, 2016, 2:16 am

here's my understanding of rape culture, and what i assume going into discussions about it

rape varies from culture to culture for cultural reasons

so the culture of rape in america is relatively better because generally we try not to victim blame, but there are still extremely regressive subcultures like PUAs and such. also trying not to be assholes isn't really good enough, and ultimately the ideal is to have no rape culture for the same reason the greater andamanese don't have internet culture

so I generally hear those comments as being about the subcultures with consent problems, and, you know, the commonalities uniting them.
wikipedia wrote:The word "w00t" itself was first seen in 1994.[citation needed] The expression rose in popularity in the late 1990s and early 2000s (decade) mostly on MMORPG such as RuneScape. It remains a niche Internet term and is not in general usage. The symbolic approximation of Latin letter forms makes w00t a prime example of internet leetspeak. It may also sometimes be seen spelled as "wewt" or "wought".

Isocitration wrote:<Isocitration> a long obscure nonsequitur that must be explained
<Isocitration> the joke is funny because of that alone
<tovakj> you've known me how long, yet?
<tovakj> yes
<tovakj> you're finally figuring out my aesthetic


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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby Alice » October 14th, 2016, 3:01 am

Tovarisch Red Yoshi wrote:here's my understanding of rape culture, and what i assume going into discussions about it

rape varies from culture to culture for cultural reasons

so the culture of rape in america is relatively better because generally we try not to victim blame, but there are still extremely regressive subcultures like PUAs and such. also trying not to be assholes isn't really good enough, and ultimately the ideal is to have no rape culture for the same reason the greater andamanese don't have internet culture

so I generally hear those comments as being about the subcultures with consent problems, and, you know, the commonalities uniting them.

This is fairly accurate, as far as I know, for the reasonable side of the subject. (Which I don't disagree with honestly.) But for the vocal side that most people see it's not. Those people tend to be the more extreme and unreasonable ones. The sorts of complete retards who think it's actually okay for a woman to consent to having sex with someone then after the fact revoking it and accusing the person they had sex with of raping them.
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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby EarthPhantomTS » October 14th, 2016, 6:10 am

Alice wrote:This is fairly accurate, as far as I know, for the reasonable side of the subject. (Which I don't disagree with honestly.) But for the vocal side that most people see it's not. Those people tend to be the more extreme and unreasonable ones. The sorts of complete retards who think it's actually okay for a woman to consent to having sex with someone then after the fact revoking it and accusing the person they had sex with of raping them.


I don't have much to say to that, except that you're exactly right, that is utterly idiotic. If you can't GIVE consent after the fact (and those people generally believe you can't), then you can't REVOKE consent either! Simple as that!
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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby Tovarisch Red Yoshi » December 30th, 2016, 6:50 pm

Aposke wrote:ping


I should know this, but

So that thing I've said, "words don't have meaning, only usages"? Rephrase it to be about life in general and you get something like "life doesn't have meaning, only usages" and I'm pretty sure that's an oversimplification of a philosophy but I can't remember a name.

Like it's not existentialism, since that's about making meaning. This denies meaning even existing (at least as far as life is concerned), like nihilism, but then tries to marry it to... I don't know, Moloch mixed with utilitarianism? (Moloch being a needlessly esoteric way to refer to that quality of nature that makes Realpolitik necessary, that makes us have to decide whether or not to pull the lever in trolley problems (in the first place, not what tells us which decision is right), the whole necessity of killing to survive, and so on).

Existentialism has a tortured relationship with proper nihilism as it is, but this strikes me more as a kind of dialectical synthesis of the two. Or maybe I'm sleep deprived and talking nonsense like usual. But I kind of want to call it post-existentialism because it sounds obnoxious
wikipedia wrote:The word "w00t" itself was first seen in 1994.[citation needed] The expression rose in popularity in the late 1990s and early 2000s (decade) mostly on MMORPG such as RuneScape. It remains a niche Internet term and is not in general usage. The symbolic approximation of Latin letter forms makes w00t a prime example of internet leetspeak. It may also sometimes be seen spelled as "wewt" or "wought".

Isocitration wrote:<Isocitration> a long obscure nonsequitur that must be explained
<Isocitration> the joke is funny because of that alone
<tovakj> you've known me how long, yet?
<tovakj> yes
<tovakj> you're finally figuring out my aesthetic


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Re: Philosophy, Lifes Important Question's

Postby EarthPhantomTS » December 31st, 2016, 2:08 am

Sorry Tova, but I've got a question for here as well.

Okay, this is making me feel terrible, but you know how I've given up on feminism now? Well...I'm kinda at the point where I think I might go full-on stupid and start being a chauvinist. And I'm still a fricking girl! But I've caught myself starting to say things like "Other girls should loosen up and be willing to be sexy and take flirting as a compliment and such" and stuff. Am I crazy? Is this just my submissive side talking, wanting to be dominated? I know I get those urges sometimes (as well as the opposite; yeah, I'm a proud switch). I know we talked about this before, but that was over a year ago, and if anything, I've gotten even more frustrated!

So...am I doing something wrong?
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